*************Sign up sheets and raider rank**********
*************Sign up sheets and raider rank**********
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We're still working on the small stuff but here are some basic rules for the sign up sheet and raider rank.

1. We will count attendance in two week chunks.

2. You must attend 50% of all raids.

3. If you are signed up and waitlisted, you must be online and ready to jump in the raid for your signup to count. We're not asking you to be outside the instance sitting on your thumbs but to be reachable in case we need you.


4. Another small rule, when it comes to gear that's being alt-spec rolled, there may be times where it will be awarded to the person who would use it the most (to benefit the raid), if not, it's going to regular rolling.



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I'm a Veteran.
Quote by DrPleaser

4. Another small rule, when it comes to gear that's being alt-spec rolled, there may be times where it will be awarded to the person who would use it the most (to benefit the raid), if not, it's going to regular rolling.



I hardly see an alt during a raid unless its an "alt raid" or what it means is if some alt come to help us in a raid and something drops that nobody wants that item should go to the alt before any offspec, that sounds good but in the other hand if we're talking about "alt raids" every alt should have the same opportunity to roll on an item that can be use for his/her class and spec.
Quote by DrPleaser

2. You must attend 50% of all raids.


Is the 50% assumed to be more than the original 2 per week average (since we're having a lot more Sunday and Monday raids)? Or is this 50% of our "standard" raid nights which are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (or are we officially adding to those days?)?

Also, do the Sunday/T5 raids count toward the attendance policy?

And if a raid is cancelled because not enough people signed up, does everyone who did sign up get credit for it as a normal raid?
Quote by DrPleaser

3. If you are signed up and waitlisted, you must be online and ready to jump in the raid for your signup to count. We're not asking you to be outside the instance sitting on your thumbs but to be reachable in case we need you.


Makes sense that you should be ready to raid even if you're Wait Listed, but are you expected to be available for the whole night? Or should you just wait to see if enough people show up to get the raid off the ground? I know that if I'm Wait Listed, I'd sometimes be inclined to log off and watch a movie or do something else. Is this okay once the raid is started, or is it something that should be verified with one of the raid leaders for that night?
Quote by Gasper
Quote by DrPleaser

4. Another small rule, when it comes to gear that's being alt-spec rolled, there may be times where it will be awarded to the person who would use it the most (to benefit the raid), if not, it's going to regular rolling.



I hardly see an alt during a raid unless its an "alt raid" or what it means is if some alt come to help us in a raid and something drops that nobody wants that item should go to the alt before any offspec, that sounds good but in the other hand if we're talking about "alt raids" every alt should have the same opportunity to roll on an item that can be use for his/her class and spec.


Gasper, I think by "alt-spec" Doc meant "off-spec", as in if a piece of melee dps mail drops and no one needs it, then I could roll for enhancement spec, unless another shammy regularly switches to this spec to help the raid, like Mystos.
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Gasper, I think by "alt-spec" Doc meant "off-spec"


Woot, thanks for translating from the Canadian, Blue

Ditto Vera's questions, btw. Thanks for putting this info out there, Doc.
/takes off Fresh Prince comdedy hat

/puts on semi-serious hat

@50% attendance: Vera does bring up a good point. The original language of Doom's raider rank post indicated we needed to attend an average of two raids per week. I like that rule. I know that there is still a LOT of gear people want from T5 content and I also know that the awesome progress we're making in BT makes us want to go after that content even more, but when we start scheduling 4 or 5 raids in a week, we're not really a casual guild anymore.

I know I am in the minority here, but 2 nights per week is already stretching me pretty thin. And having a 2 raids per week policy also lets our more active raiders take a "day off," should they feel the need.

But let's forget all that for just one minute. The key issue, to me, is not "What makes me a raider?" Rather, the biggest issue that needs addressing is more client-side transparency. What I mean by that is guild members should have a resource they can use to see who is being given credit for a given night of raiding. We don't need people asking "Is Person X a raider?" right after Person X rolls.

Can you imagine how insane it would be if we did use DKP, but no one knew exactly how much DKP they had until right before a roll/bid?

Now, I'm not saying that there are any shenanigans going on right now, far from it. But any type of formal system, be it an attendance policy, DKP, or even loot council is a lot of work to maintain. Who's keeping track of attendance right now? Doom? Doc? A combination of GMs? If it's just one person, what happens when that one person isn't present in a raid? Determining who can roll on an item based on their guild status in the Social window is just not accurate.

Maybe this is something the officers are working on right now, but there are plenty of resources available for tracking attendance, and many have posted them. Basically, all I (and I think a good chunk of our members) want is something we can turn to, be a spreadsheet or www.omega-raider-rank.com, for accurate information regard our own and other's record of attendance.

/takes off semi-serious hat

/puts on Fresh Prince comedy hat


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[4/23/09 10:48:29] Myst: plus i want to get deep fast
God forbid Vera suddenly becomes chatty, but I just wanted to respond to what Keeb said.

The two night per week average has been working well for me, too, though I do try to attend all that I can. However, I know it's not the end of the world if I don't maintain Raider rank all the time. I just wanted to say that I like the idea of having an actual number, rather than a percentage, for attendance guidelines. Right now I'm toying with the idea of trying to raid one week on, one week off, while still keeping my Raider rank. With the new rules, I would need to attend all the raids for one week and then hope that the same number or fewer were scheduled for the following week. If more raids were added for the next week (because we were doing well and wanted to move further or wanted to go back to some T5 stuff), I wouldn't meet the 50% rule.

Re: raid attendance/credit, I've wondered the same thing. Would it be possible to make this more visible, depending on how you're tracking it? I've been trying to keep track of my own attendance because I want to contribute and make Raider rank, but sometimes I just can't remember if I went to last Sunday's raid or whatever.

Also, quick question, the two week time frames start on Tuesdays, right?

Lastly, has any thought been given to Raider rank in relation to Initiate status? What about possibly requiring initiates to achieve Raider rank for one month before promoting to full membership? I know that all of the people who joined after me have been great additions, but I just figured this could help ensure that we continue to recruit active members who are going to want to raid and help us progress as we get further into T6 content.
With raids M-Th, and the pain train beginning soon (School), raiding twice a week M-Th might be a little tough for me. I know that 1 of the nights + a weekend raid would be fine, but I know that this goes for reboot too (as we take the same classes) that two raids/week (weekdays) are going to be tough. I still really love raiding and want to continue doing so throughout the fall, and not be demoted to a member, so is there any way we can work around this or find another solution? Maybe count 1 weekend + 1 weekday = raider? Let me know what you guys think
Agree with both Keeb and Vera, 100%. It would be really, REALLY nice if there was some resource we could adopt for tracking attendance that would keep the process transparent and be visible on-demand for all of us.

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Lastly, has any thought been given to Raider rank in relation to Initiate status? What about possibly requiring initiates to achieve Raider rank for one month before promoting to full membership?


^^ This. Seems like we've had a few additions that didn't raid much at all for their first month in the guild, but only started signing up regularly after they were made full members / Raiders and could roll on raid loot. Given that that sort of defeats the purpose of the Initiate period, I think Vera's idea would be helpful to evaluate new recruits more thoroughly.
I think I can give a few semi-official answers here, although do please note that rules are subject to change at any time as determined by the officers. But, I think I can accurately answer at least some of these questions.

As for the "start day" each week for raider rank tracking purposes, it should reset each Tues. before the raid. So, Tuesday's raid is the "first" day of the week as far as determining raider rank credit is concerned. Last time I checked, we should be getting Raider credit for T5 content, at least if you raid that content on your main. We normally don't schedule more than 4 raids per week, so if you do attend twice a week, you'll still meet the 50% minimum criteria. I don't know if we'll leave this at 50% attendance or set it to a firm 2 nights per week, but we'll work that out.

Initiates do earn credit for Raider Rank while they are initiates. So, if an Initiate has qualified for a Raider Rank on day 1 of becoming a full member after the initiate period, they should be eligible to roll on items, if I remember correctly.


As for attendance tracking for raids, that's something that does need some fine tuning, and the officers have already discusses this. We're toying around with some ideas right now and working out a better way to keep track of these things. It may take a little more time to get it sorted out, but we'll come up with something for you. It'll be a better method I believe, so hang in there with us We're discussing using a variety of tools to help us keep track of raid attendance, and different things we can do, so that should work itself out soon.

As for the Raider Rank data itself, I think I'd also like to see an online chart or some such that everyone can view and see the latest updated Raider Rank info. We'll see if we can work that in there too. So, hang in there with us gang, improvements are coming. And for those questions I did not answer...um...well...ehhh...yeah we'll try to answer those soon! ;D


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Is the 50% assumed to be more than the original 2 per week average (since we're having a lot more Sunday and Monday raids)? Or is this 50% of our "standard" raid nights which are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (or are we officially adding to those days?)?

Also, do the Sunday/T5 raids count toward the attendance policy?

And if a raid is cancelled because not enough people signed up, does everyone who did sign up get credit for it as a normal raid?


yeah very good question, and i want to know the same thing.

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3. If you are signed up and waitlisted, you must be online and ready to jump in the raid for your signup to count. We're not asking you to be outside the instance sitting on your thumbs but to be reachable in case we need you.


does being on vent count also instead of logging in to wow when and if we are waitlisted? i've been waitlisted a few times, and i log in to wow and wait for 3 hours for a possible spot in the raid, but wasnt really needed that night. so that's why i'm wondering if being on vent instead of being on wow count as well.
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Initiates do earn credit for Raider Rank while they are initiates. So, if an Initiate has qualified for a Raider Rank on day 1 of becoming a full member after the initiate period, they should be eligible to roll on items, if I remember correctly.


That makes total sense, but I think the question is more along these lines: can we (or should we) implement a firm quantity of raids-per-week that an Initiate should attend to qualify for full membership? E.g., could we apply the same criteria for Raider rank to the Initiate rank, with the difference being that four weeks of successful "initiate raider" status qualifies you for full membership in the guild?

The concern isn't having newly-joined full members rolling on loot - if they meet the requirements on Day 1, they should totally get to roll, IMO. But so far, all I've heard in regards to initiates is "we expect to see you raiding regularly," but that's not quantified that I know of, and "regularly" can be very loosely interpreted sometimes. I don't think this is a problem we've had with anyone here currently, but it would help avoid having future Initiates coast through their four weeks with a small handful of raids attended, and opt only to sign up for 2-3 raids per week once they have loot privileges.

Hope this helps clarify - and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. None of this is OMG FIX IT NAO stuff, IMO, but just some thoughts on additional tweaks to our raid attendance / loot system.
I think a better definition of "Raider" should be presented here. Here it goes:

In order for us to raid consistently, we need consistent raiders. This was implemented at the point where we were having a lot of sign up and no-shows, late log-ons, etc. We had to cancel plenty a raid due to this. Since the implementation we've been much more consistent and, as a result, have made some incredible strides.

It should be noted, however, that it isn't a bad thing to not be a "Raider" at all times. We are casual in the way that we do not require everyone to attend a majority of the raids. There needs to be an understanding, though, that "Raiders" should get an advantage as a result of their efforts in making the raids a possibility. Veterans and Members (sometimes even Initiates) still get loot roll opportunities. It even occurred last night when Bloodboil loot was distributed. It just makes sense to give those who are present at least 50% of the time a chance to pick up something before someone else who is present maybe 20% of the time.

As for the percentages, we will definitely clarify that. Also, the GMs and Officers have been utilizing raid attendence add-ons to better track attendence and actual tallies will be made readily available.

We'll clear up these issues with the quickness. Meanwhile, let's get Mother Sharaz down this week. Boo-ya.


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Rumpshaka.
Quote by Dunedain

That makes total sense, but I think the question is more along these lines: can we (or should we) implement a firm quantity of raids-per-week that an Initiate should attend to qualify for full membership? E.g., could we apply the same criteria for Raider rank to the Initiate rank, with the difference being that four weeks of successful "initiate raider" status qualifies you for full membership in the guild?


This isn't a bad idea at all methinks.
On another note I would like to apologize for my spotty attendance during my "initiate" period, I realize 90+% attendance isn't going to cut it but thanks for letting me coast to moar purplz

It sounds as though the officers have been getting a better handle on this of late, I even saw Doc hand out a couple of demotions yesterday to people who haven't been attending. Whatever the case may be I will agree with some of the above posts that the data should be readily available in some form so that people who don't track their own attendance don't all of a sudden get a "surprise! you can't roll on that!" in the middle of a raid lol

I'm sure you'll keep us all posted on where we're headed with this.. LET'S KICK MOTHER'S @$$ TONIGHT!!!


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Eureka! The hat goes on the head!
Werd,

If we cancel a raid, then yes, you do get credit for it. That would kind of suck to punish those who wanted/could raid that night.

Waitlist: If you are waitlisted, be where you are accesiable if we need you. Weather it be online, on vent or in the omega channel.

At MOST we have a raid 5 times a week, but you will only need 2 raids for that week for it to count. I think Doc has a spread sheet that he was working on and I'll talk to him to see if we can get that on here, or I'll see if I can grab one of the DKP options from the website if that would be easier. Ill check into it.

Think I got most of the question.


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Healing....what is healing? Im a DPS machine fools!



seriously, can we go to dkp? I'm not joking.
Quote by Jalena
seriously, can we go to dkp? I'm not joking.


Only if we start it the day of our guild-first Archimonde kill.


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[4/23/09 10:48:29] Myst: plus i want to get deep fast
I opened up the can of worms here , didn't I?


This is just the framework of a bigger plan, we're just starting to implement it. There are kinks and what not but we'll be fine tuning it as problems arise.

The "be online if waitlisted" rule was thrown in because the original way just had a massive loophole where a person could signup late or just say "waitlist me" and get full credit for a raid. And of course that's simply not fair. And of course, shit always happens and there have been times where we have to sub in someone and people on the waitlist weren't around. Now I know everyone here is honest enough not to do that, but we have to codify the rules to avoid problems later on.

Like I said, I don't expect you to be outside BT sitting around for hours at a time, just be somewhere where we can reach you, alt, vent channel or some kind of IM program.


We're trying to keep it fair and FUN for everyone. I wrote the damned thing right after a nap and during the trash pulls to bloodboil so my wording and thoughts weren't a 100% clear.




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65 Unique Guild Members
261 Characters (alts included)
3 Level 110 characters
30 Website/Forum Members
0 Posts in 24 hours
0 Posts in 7 days
16867 Total Posts
Kashton is the last poster
65 Unique Guild Members
261 Characters (alts included)
3 Level 110 characters
30 Website/Forum Members
0 Posts in 24 hours
0 Posts in 7 days
16867 Total Posts
Kashton is the last poster